OpenHandhelds.org

Me too.

hell, i want that knead button!

Indeed.

-God Ginrai

To be fair, wtf is a knead button? I googled it and searched the forums, an nothing.

Also to be fair, God Ginrai, you do have some specific desires that aren't mirrored by the rest of the community (select and start on the alt and ctrl keys, printed on the same keys). I understand feeling a certain way, but to make *so many* posts on the matter (and you made many, to the point of being off topic after the first few).

Ever think that you tried to make your point and should stop re posting the same damn thing over and over? The keymaps are what they are, and your arguments are only compelling to you, repeating them (ad infinitum) is not going to change anything. So far no one else feels the same, about the arbitrary point of view you have on those two buttons.

Frankly, I cannot find any reason anyone would care, and clearly it is unanimous that no one else sees a reason to care about that. Why keep posting it? One individual will not change it, even if there was a reason to... and you are the only person who thinks there is a reason to (again, you're points on the matter are not persuasive to anyone but you).

It's a button on a massage chair.



They have always been, and always will be game buttons first.



Half the times I have posted about the start and select buttons, it has been to correct someone who thought I was complaining about the keymap. I would correct them to say that I think the map is fine, and then restate what I had been posting about so that they could see the difference between the two things. If you couldn't see that, then maybe you should try reading a little more in-depth when you read a topic.

-God Ginrai

As I said, you keep repeating the thing that no one but you cares about (ad infinitum and more to the point, ad nauseam). You don't care that no one else cares (and I missed a few).

There doesn't seem to be anywhere else that's appropriate for the Ctrl and Alt buttons.
Perhaps the start and select should be removed, Ctrl and Alt suggested for emulator mappings, and Pandora Logo used as... Native Pause / Menu button? Start Menu? Zeppelin?

I actually don't know what its purpose is, now that I mention it.

All the gaming buttons have their owen GPIOs, including the select, start (ctrl alt). This is important so they can be pressed and be registered by the processor.

CTRL and ALT also need to be be able to be pressed and registered at any time by the processor.

The QWERTY can only take two key presses at once, so the Start/Select (CTRL/ALT) need to be independant of that, otherwise key combinations won't work.

The problem God Genrai has, is the printing on the keys, which is kinda arbitrary. The only reason not to have the text printed on the keys, is a personal one (just not to see the text). They will all work the same way, text printing or not. At least, that is how his arguments come across.

Edit: My bad, I said Gruso not God Genrai, as GD aptly pointed out.

er... I meant, "what is the purpose of the Pandora button"?
I'd rather just label the other buttons "Ctrl" and "Alt", since Start and Select are just backwards-compatibility buttons [In my experience, they just bring up a menu, which the Pandora button can do], and will be handled by application-level mapping for emulators anyway.

My bad then. In that case (and I don't know necessarily what I am talking about), I see the Pandora button as a system override. In a game, somewhere else, you hit it and you get back to your menu. You hold it, and the system comes up. Like ctrl-alt-del on a Windows machine (and the equivalent for a linux one).

It has it's own GPIO, so regardless what you are doing, it can perform a function.

Of course that is speculation, and I would love the OP team to comment. As this is supposed to be a console, it would make sense.

The purpose is likely what ever they find a need for and by "They" I mean people making apps and games for the system. Extra buttons are always welcome as long as it removes the need to press an extra combination of buttons for no good reason. The "pandora" button is just as useful as the big goofy green X button on an xbox controller or the PS button on a Sixaxis controller or even the home button on a PSP. you can define context sensitive menu options that have nothing to do with the game while the 'start' and 'select' are game specific buttons that dont force you to have to press something awkwardly to change weapons in a game or simply pause. Let's not forget this thing is as much a game system as it is a linux computer.

Quoting this again:

"It’s [the logo key] tied directly to a GPIO line (all 3 keys in the middle are) instead of the keypad matrix so that it can be used at any time. It will bring up a system menu with things like a task switching menu, system options and shutdown / suspend commands. The “Pandora” key is off the table for repurposing or remapping." - Chip

http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/snippets/

Gah, I still don't understand why there is a caps-lock key on there ... ah, I now see start and select have gotten alt and ctrl bi-functions .. oh well.

+1

I'm not into the shiny thing but it still looks nice.

That second quote was a response I was making to someone else challenging my idea.

Also, I'd suggest that you change the part in your later post where you said "Gruso." Seeing as you're trying so hard to paint me in a bad light, I wouldn't want people thinking bad of Gruso because you made a typo.

-God Ginrai

You guys still need to take into account the fact that even if they aren't on GPIOs (if they're on the keyboard matrix), they'll be sticky keys. You will have no need to hold them down. I totally agree with GodGinrai that if the Start/Select buttons are mapped to Ctrl/Alt, they shouldn't be labelled as such. These buttons are, first and foremost, game buttons (hence them being put on GPIOs), and their secondary purpose is as Ctrl/Alt. Even if they are used more as Ctrl/Alt, this is not their original purpose. I strongly believe that they should be labeled simply "Start" and "Select", and a user's manual would let people know that they function as Ctrl/Alt in text-entry mode. Then again, maybe Ctrl/Alt should be mapped to somewhere else altogether. (Game buttons?)

That don't make much sense to me.
The Pandora is like a mini computer with gaming buttons and the Linux distro running on it will see the buttons as ctrl and alt. In Pandora-specific emulators ctrl and alt will then be (standard) mapped as select and start. The buttons will only be recognized as select and start by unofficial (not created by OP team) programs (emulators and such), the OS will still see them as ctrl and alt.
Am I missing something?

I think that they'll be seen as Ctrl and Alt everywhere, and that your emulator will have to map Ctrl->Select. It's the simplest solution, and anything else would be dumb imho.
Btw, if you don't like the label, cover it with a permanent marker or something.

Maybe the easiest way would be for the 'Ctrl' and 'Alt' to be marked on the button directly, and 'Start' & 'Select' printed in permanent white lettering on the Pandora case ?

I mean most joypads around are marked or engraved with the lettering beside the Start and Select buttons, right ?

But if ppl are thinking of remapping keys, they will probably thinking of ways of re-labelling the keys anyway, so it shouldn't really matter what is on the keys anyway.